Thursday, September 03, 2009

Election Speculation

It looks increasingly likely that we will have a Fall election. While nothing is a guarantee, I would say the odds of an election are far greater than the odds of not having one. The Liberals have passed the point of return and so regardless of what happens between now and the next confidence vote, they have no choice but to vote down the government. If they back down now, it would be far more damaging than going through. The NDP and the Bloc Quebecois however have at least left the door open to possibly cooperating, however considering the ideological differences the Tories have with both, I doubt we will see a deal acceptable to both sides, although if the Liberals open a lead, Harper may bend over backwards to give them want they want. After all, he is not someone who wants to give up power easily. As for precipitating an early election backfiring on the Liberals, it might in the short-term but by election day, I suspect it will be a non-issue. After all, most didn't like Harper breaking his election law and calling one last year, yet he still won a stronger minority. If the Liberals perform poorly on election day, it will likely be due to other factors

As for my views on the election, I am not entirely keen on the idea. This goes beyond my partisan views and more to my view that we are probably going to have more minority than majority governments in the foreseeable future and having an election every year is not a good thing. This is what Italy had for most of the latter half of the 20th century, so hardly a road I want to see Canada go down. Ideally, it would be nice if the government reached out to the opposition while the opposition should a willingness to compromise and if everybody compromised a bit, we might even get some good legislation we wouldn't see otherwise. Unfortunately, our political atmosphere is far too politically charged for this to happen. I just hope after the election, that if Ignatieff wins, he reaches out to all the opposition parties and tries to find a way to have a stable government than can last 3 years or more. Likewise, if the Tories are re-elected with a minority, hopefully, they will replace Harper with someone who is more concillatory and willing to work with others. I don't think an election would harm our economic recovery as the Tories suggest, but I do think having elections every year going forward would be bad in the long-term.

As for predictions, it is too early to tell. This is Ignatieff's first campaign so his numbers can either go up considerably if he impresses Canadians or drop considerably if he is a turnoff. I think in terms of order of likeliness, I would go Tory minority, Liberal minority, Tory majority, and Liberal majority, the latter two both being highly unlikely and the last one being next to impossible while the first one only being slightly more likely than the second one. On the surface a Liberal minority looks quite easy, but when one looks at things on a riding by riding basis there it is a bit more challenging as the Tories have 66 seats more and even if the Tories lost every riding they won by 10% and the Liberals won every riding they came within 10%, the Tories would still come out ahead. Now that doesn't mean it isn't impossible to overcome such a gap, I am simply pointing out a minor shift from last election won't be sufficient enough. I'll have more once the election gets under way if it does this Fall.

7 Comments:

Blogger Steve V said...

" On the surface a Liberal minority looks quite easy, but when one looks at things on a riding by riding basis there it is a bit more challenging as the Tories have 66 seats more and even if the Tories lost every riding they won by 10% and the Liberals won every riding they came within 10%, the Tories would still come out ahead. "

Hey Miles, nice to see your blog. I reviewed that math too, and it a bit more daunting that first blush suggests. We have to move some serious numbers, in select places to have a chance. I'd give the Cons a slight edge odds wise, maybe like 60/40 incorporating all the intangibles. On thing to keep in mind too, the polls are about 12% different than last time, and we've seen it as high 17-18%, so the potential is there with a smooth campaign, wind in our sails, for us to pull it off. It's realistic, but not probable if that makes sense. I'm good with that, because really we're a long way off from "kick the bums out", waiting for that is a fool's game in the near term. Coming out of a recession, I see no reason to count on a "welling up" any time soon. With that said, why not now? This thing was never going to be decided without a campaign anyways, so we enter WAY better off than last year. Plus, we're going in on our terms, no flat footed this go round. All things being equal...

7:25 PM  
Blogger Monkey Loves to Fight said...

Steve V - I generally agree with your odds. Certainly there has been a fair amount of swing. In fact the Tories in the case of Ontario have only fallen a couple of points from last time, rather than the NDP and Green vote has fallen more and mostly to the benefit of the Liberals. The problem here is the Tories got over 45% in 39 ridings in Ontario, thus all of those are going to be uphill battles. Another 9 ridings they got in the low 40s and those are more doable, while 3 they got in the high 30s and I expect the Liberals to take these provided they run a good campaign.

My ugess is a Liberal win would come by getting the same results in English Canada as 2006, while winning 30 seats in Quebec and this would put the Liberals at 120 seats, while the Tories around 115 seats.

I also agree the kick the bums out is a way off. This usually happens after a party is power for over 10 years although sometimes sooner, but rarely in the first five years.

As for why not now, this has less to do with not wanting an election now, but more not wanting an election every year. If after this one, the next government can last a full 3 years or more, I am fine with that.

7:56 PM  
Blogger Steve V said...

My ugess is a Liberal win would come by getting the same results in English Canada as 2006, while winning 30 seats in Quebec and this would put the Liberals at 120 seats, while the Tories around 115 seats.


I think that's the gameplan and 30 might be a touch high in Quebec, that's best, best case. As for Ontario, I hear you on the Con percentages, but it really is fluid, a lot of place it isn't necessarily solid or historic. Also, there's NDP seats in play for sure. Maybe a few pickups in B.C., that looks doable, one in the prairies, maybe a couple in Man. A couple out east, that's it.

I've never once entertained a Lib majority, if we win it will be very tight seat wise. You don't just turf that many incumbents unless it's a significant wave.

8:33 PM  
Blogger Monkey Loves to Fight said...

I generally agree and true 30 seats seems a bit high, although plausible. If they took 14 of the 18 seats on the Island of Montreal (the four East end ridings will always go Bloc Quebecois), 3 Laval ridings, 3 Outaouis ridings, a few in the Eastern Townships and few South shore ridings and one Quebec City, that would put them pretty close to 30 seats. The problem in Ontario is although the polls are fluid, the Tories have consistently gotten between 35-40% provincially and federally and only go above 40% when their opponent messes up and only fall below 35% when they mess up. Eastern Ontario is pretty solidly Conservative (asides from Central Ottawa and Kingston), we could pick up some of the urban ridings in Southwestern Ontario such as the two Kitchener ones, but I expect most of the rural ones to stay Conservative. The 905 belt could go either way although I expect the rural/urban fringe ridings to stay Conservative while the more densely populated, diverse ridings closer to the city to go Liberal. In Western Canada, you are right, probably only a few and most likely in Manitoba and British Columbia, although I think 15 seats in the West is doable. Atlantic Canada, looks good now, but I want to see the province by province breakdown before commenting here as the Tories are probably doing much better in New Brunswick than Newfoundland & Labrador.

The thing to remember is it seems that the last minute undecideds tend to break in favour of the governing party in Ontario as we have seen in the last few elections. By contrast, Quebecers seem far more risk averse and willing to switch their votes to something different even if unknown.

8:55 PM  
Anonymous Toby Knows... said...

Glad to see you tossing around imaginary numbers. If this is what Liberals are up to for the next election you might as well just hand the Conservatives a majority. Oh wait.. You are handing the Conservatives a majority.

Thanks!

11:18 PM  
Blogger Monkey Loves to Fight said...

Toby - I did say that a Conservative minority was more likely than a Liberal minority so hardly partisan bias. Never mind, the one poll taken since Ignatieff announced he would bring down the government showed the two parties tied. Now, yes it may backfire and elections are as usual unpredictable, but I wouldn't be so sure it hands the Tories a majority.

Also, I am not keen on the idea of another election as mentioned, not because I fear the results, but simply I don't like the precedence as having an election every year is not healthy in the long-run.

5:04 AM  
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