Uh huh the Hidden Agenda found
Just as the Randy White tape last time tanked the Conservative campaign, it looks like they've found one from Vic Toews. Now I am a little surprised they are releasing it this early as this would still give the Conservatives time to recover. Anyways here it is
posted by Monkey Loves to Fight at 2:41 PM
18 Comments:
Oh, 2003. You mean, back when the Liberals official position was to be against same sex marriage as well.
Wow, that's earth shattering.
That's right Biff. Didn't Paul Martin suggest using it on the issue back then too?
When the Conservatives have double the support of the Liberals on policy, as the Strategic Counsel poll indicates, they are going to more than desperate.
Actually no in 2003, the Liberals were official for same-sex marriage. This was after the Ontario court of appeal struck down the common law of a union between one man and one woman and the Liberals agreed not to appeal the case to the SCOC. Besides Paul Martin made a commitment tonight to scrap the notwithstanding clause, something that I support, I know your opinon Brandon is probably closer to Harper, which I respect. But this election is about values and choosing who is closest to you. It is not about right and wrong, but values and Liberal values are closer to mine.
Anyways the fact he was speaking to an American Conservative group is a big issue. These were the same groups who helped re-elect Bush and want to remove the separation of church and state. The connections between the Conservatives and the US Conservative movement are too strong. Martin is right, American style Conservatism has no history in Canada and it would argue it has no place in Canada either.
So corruption is a value that you identify with?
No corruption isn't a value I identify with, but how many times do I have to repeat, MARTIN WAS EXONERATED!! Get It. The people involved in the scandal were punished. The only reason the Liberals are falling behind is not because of the scandal, which has been around for over a year, but rather the Tories are running an outstanding campaign and the Liberals are running a terrible one. Had the Liberals been running a campaign like the Tories were and the Tories like the Liberals were, we would be on our way to a Liberal majority government.
But now we're on our way to a Tory....
...oh wait, I better not say it. It will just jinx it for us ;)
Sort of like saying "shutout" during a kockey game.
hockey game that is, sorry
I think any polls suggesting a Tory majority could be what is needed to turn it around. People are ready for a Conservative minority, but not Conservative majority.
Watching Miles squirm and spin his way out of his previous statements of an assured Liberal victory is amusing to say the least. Don't worry, Miles, when you try to come crawling back to a victorious Conservative party after your horrible strategic miscalculation to support the Liberals, many of us will remember your words!
As for Martin being "exonerated", that's beside the point. Why does he continue to answer basic questions about the money his party stole from us?
1) Exactly how much money was stolen by the Liberal party?
2) Which candidates in Quebec received the stolen money?
3) When is all the money going to be paid back to taxpayers in full?
4) Why didn't Paul Martin allow Gomery to investiage abuses in the awarding of government polling contracts, particularly in the Ministry of Finance?
His refusal to answer any of these questions is shameful and reason enough to turf him from office.
Stephen Harper, Prime Minster - get used to it, Miles.
Joel I won't be returning to the Conservatives if Harper is leader. I would come back if MacKay or Lord were leader. Yeah I realize the polls stink for the Liberals, but there is still two weeks. The attack ads have just come out so hopefully those will help, although who knows. The real problem is in Ontario since whoever they choose to go for always wins.
Let's put this in context.
Joel was a PCer. If I remember right, he was Youth Chair for Belinda Stronach's leadership campaign. And he seems to be 100% behind Harper in this election.
Further proof of two things:
1) This whole merger as take over talk is a bunch of garbage
2) This isn't some vast far-right conspiracy exclusively controlled by the Reform/Alliance.
I'm proud that old PCs and CAs have put their differences aside to work together for the good of the country.
And as people like Joel demonstrate, most PCs didn't go off kicking and screaming when they're favoured leadership candidate lost.
And I'm sure they'll be proud to stand behind a Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
Yes, Brandon, I will be standing proud behind a Prime Minister Harper!
As for the attack ads, they are laughable. After raising such a stink about the "negative" Conservative ads, the Liberals have finally proved they will truly say anything to get elected. I said at the time their faux outrage was canned, and surprise surprise, Liberals can't remember what they said a week ago.
This is, of course, no surprise coming from the party of a guy like Paul Martin, who either doesn't remember or doesn't care that he once pledged to invoke the very notwithstanding clause he now wants to abolish. Yes, Paul Martin actually said he'd invoke Section 33 if the courts ruled that churches were obligated to perform same-sex marriages. So what's happened in the meantime - has Paul decided he no longer supports religious freedom? Or is it because he's 12 points back in the polls and he's decided to casually toss out a serious constitutional amendment he thinks will win him votes?
What a bunch of desperate smear artists and hypocrites. You've picked your lot, Miles - enjoy the gutter of politics.
It's time to end moral nihilism and hedonism. It's time to stop tearing our society down and start building it back up. Canadians are starting to see this, and have placed you squarley in the minority Miles.
You are part of a group of people that believe the current Liberal party represents anyone's values at all. The only value they represent is greed.
If fear-mongering about Harper+US is enough to shake his support, then so be it. Harper has come forward this election with a message of government accountability and ethics, a thing this country desperately needs to survive the next 50 years.
With how you've described your values Miles it seems obvious that the Liberals do not represent you. They would have you believe they do, however.
Canada will get the government it deserves.
Brandon - yes the merger has had some success, but many of those who were active in the PCs still haven't come over and won't until Harper is gone.
Joel - the attack ads will have some impact, I cannot say whether it is enough to turn it around, but they will make a difference.
Biff - There are many things I am unhappy with the Liberals, but I would rather wait another 2 years for the Tories to get a real leader.
Speaking of hidden agendas:
Martin would use notwithstanding clause to protect churches from gay marriage
18 December 2003
OTTAWA (CP) _ Prime Minister Paul Martin says he would use the notwithstanding clause in the unlikely event that the Supreme Court ruled churches must perform gay weddings.
Under the hypothetical scenario, Martin would be the first prime minister to use the Constitution's controversial veto clause.
``Oh, yes I would,'' Martin replied Thursday when asked during a yearend interview with CBC Radio whether he would ever use the clause.
Cute.
"I must be honest and say that I don't fear the notwithstanding clause very much. It can be abused as anything can, but the history of the Canadian Bill of Rights Diefenbaker had adopted in 1960, it has a notwithstanding clause and it hasn't caused any great scandal [sic]. So I don't think the notwithstanding clause deters very significantly from the excellence of the Charter."
"...it is a way that the legislatures, federal and provincial, have of ensuring that the last word is held by the elected representatives of the people rather than by the courts."
- Pierre Elliott Trudeau
from the Parliamentary Archives
Anonymous - the part about churches being forced to perform gay marriages is irrelevant as the Charter only applies to governments, not private organizations.
As for Pierre Trudeau, he supported having Property Rights in the Charter (and only excluded them because of NDP provincial governments who insisted on it), while Martin says he is against it, so they are different.
Paul Martin on values reminds me of that old joke:
I have values! And if you don't like them, I have other values.
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