Harper needs to apologize for comment about Bains
As someone who has watched Question period before, I am use to pretty nasty rhetoric and gutter rhetoric, but even as nasty as Question period can get, I still think there are limits. What Harper said clearly stepped over the line. To say the Liberals are refusing to renew two of the anti-terrorism provisions because it might affect Bains' father in law is clearly stepping over the line. Attacks on one's ideas are fair game, but on a person is pushing the limits, and on a family member is clearly crossing the line. Harper needs to apologize immediately. People may in the heat of the moment say dumb things they shouldn't say, but the fact Harper, not just on this smear but others too, refuses to apologize clearly sends the signal this is a person who is willing to destroy his opponents no matter what the cost. Even some Liberals in the past have apologized when they made stupid statements, and Harper should do the same. I know he has a strong hatred against the Liberals, but he needs to remember that even if they have a different vision for Canada they are generally good people who want a better country, just have a different vision. This type of smearing clearly turns people off and it needs to stop from both parties. Harsh attacks on the other party's ideas are fair game, but personal smears need to stop. No wonder so many people don't bother to go into politics. In fact this is part of the reason I have no intention on going into politics, despite my interest.
posted by Monkey Loves to Fight at 3:43 PM
12 Comments:
To say the Liberals are refusing to renew two of the anti-terrorism provisions because it might affect Bains' father in law
He never said that, did he Miles? What it appeared he was trying to do was read the article in question.
Tell me, is the article false? Will the inquiry in question go on if the Liberals' vote to extinguish the clauses in question?
You know full well the answer to both questions is NO. That is precisely why the Air India families are demanding Parliament renew them. A stand that Dion apparently disgustingly dismissed as the result of them being "emotional."
If that's the case, then it's Dion who owes the apology. To the families of a plane full of murdered Canadians.
Brandon - I disagree with your assessment. I am strong defender of civil liberties and being able to put someone in detention without charges on suspicion for one year is unacceptable to me. Now I would be more than willing to support an amended version that protects civil liberties and Ralph Goodale suggested.
In addition, I think what Harper said was inappropriate. He has a long history of Gutter politics and never admits he is wrong. In fact Harper as leader turns me away from the party even more so than the party's policies and this just re-enforces my view that Harper is a nasty mean spirited guy who wants to destroy anyone who gets in his way.
It is too bad we don't have someone like Jean Charest, John Tory, or Gordon Campbell leading one of the federal parties is these are the type of people we need now who are moderately conservative but are respectful of the other side, are willing to compromise, and will admit mistakes.
Spin it any way you like Brandon but to even suggest or infer that the Liberals are taking their position to protect the family member of one of its Members is ludicrous, beyond good taste and totally lacking in class.
It is a baseless attack on the Member and it is a baseless attack on the Member's father-in-law. If you do not believe me then why has not Mr. Harper or anybody else made these allegations outside of the House and away from the immunity from lawsuits if gives them? Certainly their have been spokesmen defending the PM but no one has repeated the inferences that Mr. Harper has made in the House.
There were times when Jean Chretien left me shaking my head when his partisanship was at its worst but Mr. Harper's actions yesterday makes Mr. Chretien look tame by comparison.
Judging by your suggestion that Mr. Dion apologize I can see you are just as lacking in class as Mr. Harper. Then again I have yet to speak to a Reformer who had any class so I am really not surprised by you or Mr. Harper.
Ottlib - I generally agree here. Although I know Brandon personally and he is a very decent person, I do have to say I find his views a little too right wing on some issues. The Reform Party was largely a movement to try and introduce American neo-conservatism into Canada's more liberal political culture and it used the guise of populism and Western Alienation to gain legitimacy.
I also think it would be good if Tories would be sometimes willing to criticize their leader when wrong. Although I rarely criticize Liberal leaders, there have been issues I disagree with them on and I won't hesistate to say it.
He has a long history of Gutter politics and never admits he is wrong. In fact Harper as leader turns me away from the party even more so than the party's policies and this just re-enforces my view that Harper is a nasty mean spirited guy who wants to destroy anyone who gets in his way.
Uh-huh. And Martin was just a swell guy who never roughed up any opponents.
The trail of people he either destroyed or tried to would stretch a mile long.
It is a baseless attack on the Member and it is a baseless attack on the Member's father-in-law.
The article in question claims that Bains' father-in-law was a spokesman for a Sikh terrorist group.
If that's "baseless," then as I said before Mr. Bains ought to take it up with the Vancouver Sun, in court if need be.
If you do not believe me then why has not Mr. Harper or anybody else made these allegations outside of the House and away from the immunity from lawsuits if gives them?
Again, why has Bains or his father in law not filed suit against the Vancouver Sun. If the article is false, you'd assume they'd do so.
I have yet to hear or see any denial of the article's accuracy.
There were times when Jean Chretien left me shaking my head when his partisanship was at its worst but Mr. Harper's actions yesterday makes Mr. Chretien look tame by comparison.
Then I can only guess you've forgotten the Martin years. I for one seem to remember him claiming Harper supported child labour and insinuated that he wanted to impose martial law "in our cities."
Judging by your suggestion that Mr. Dion apologize I can see you are just as lacking in class as Mr. Harper.
Thinking it's disgusting to dismiss the concerns of the Air India families as a function of them being "emotional" makes ME classless?!
That's about is puzzling as it gets.
If someone blew your loved ones to bits, I'm sure you'd be pretty "emotional" about it too. And I don't think you'd take too kindly to a political leader who dismisses your concerns on that basis.
Uh-huh. And Martin was just a swell guy who never roughed up any opponents.
The trail of people he either destroyed or tried to would stretch a mile long.
At least Martin had others do his dirty work and as a person he seemed like a genuine decent person, whereas Harper seems like a nasty mean spirited guy. I would never want to work in the same company as the guy, let alone sit in his caucus.
The article in question claims that Bains' father-in-law was a spokesman for a Sikh terrorist group.
If that's "baseless," then as I said before Mr. Bains ought to take it up with the Vancouver Sun, in court if need be.
It was the fact he tried to claim that this was influencing the Liberals decision on the ATA. Smearing someone's family like this and claiming this is the reason for changing their position on the ATA is low ball. Both Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton condemned it and pretty much every commenter other than the Tory partisans are condemning it. I am not saying the Liberals haven't said stupid things too, but this was way over the top what Harper did. He needs to apologize. This would make the issue go away for one and it would make him look more human if he admits to mistakes once in a while.
Then I can only guess you've forgotten the Martin years. I for one seem to remember him claiming Harper supported child labour and insinuated that he wanted to impose martial law "in our cities."
Martin himself never said either of those things. Someone in his party posted it on their website. And just because the Liberals did it, doesn't make it right. After all the Liberals lost the last election, so copying what defeated them seems like an unwise strategy and a bad move.
Thinking it's disgusting to dismiss the concerns of the Air India families as a function of them being "emotional" makes ME classless?!
That's about is puzzling as it gets.
If someone blew your loved ones to bits, I'm sure you'd be pretty "emotional" about it too. And I don't think you'd take too kindly to a political leader who dismisses your concerns on that basis.
And thats why Harper should stop politicizing this. In addition civil rights should never be overshadowed by the threat of terrorism, so I think Dion's view on the ATA is quite legitimate even if you don't agree just as your view of supporting it is legitimate, but lets have an honest respectful debate, don't use this as a political football as Harper is.
At least Martin had others do his dirty work and as a person he seemed like a genuine decent person, whereas Harper seems like a nasty mean spirited guy.
If I may use an analogy, there really isn't much difference between using a hitman to murder someone and picking up a gun and pulling the trigger yourself. To think there is one is simply fallacious.
Now, as far as the crux of your post goes, while what was said was more or less over the top, as I said on my blog post, the victim card being played by the Liberals simply derives no sympathy from me. It's politics, nasty stuff is often said on both sides of the floor. The difference: Conservatives won't whine about it for a week when the Liberals take a below-the-belt shot at them.
Of course, there is more than one "political football" in play in the House of Commons- if you truly believe that the Liberals playing victim has nothing to do with their sagging poll numbers and Stephane Dion's current leadership difficulties, if you don't think even for one second that this move was made simply to detract from the various political ailments the Liberals have suffered, then you are naive.
The investigation of this heinous crime has been hampered by the negligence of the security agencies or interference by the Canadian government in the 1980’s. We all know about destruction f some Air India related evidence by CSIS in 1985 but very few of us know that tampering with Air India file occurred in 1990’s as well. Check Globe and Mail from 26 February 2003 and read story by Robert Matas about testimony by a retired RCMP officer at Malik/Bagri trial. I quote from the story, :”Mr. Drozda, a retired RCMP officer who worked on the Air-India case from 1985 to 1992
During Mr. Drozda's testimony, the court also heard that an unidentified person had tampered with two boxes of sealed documents from the Narita trial.
The boxes, stored at Vancouver RCMP headquarters, contained copies of documents setting out information disclosed to Mr. Reyat's defence lawyers during the Narita trial.
Mr. Drozda testified that the boxes were sealed in 1992 after the trial. But on the day before he testified in the Air-India pretrial hearing, Mr. Drozda discovered the seal was broken. Some material had been removed and other material had been inserted, he said.”
Dion said, as the party of the Charter, we have to protect civil liberties.
FACT:
The SCoC has already ruled, in 2004, that the clauses in the ATA were constitutional, so the ATA has already survived a Charter challenge.....scratch that as a reason to not extend the ATA for 3 years.
FACT:
A Liberal dominated Senate committee report, yesterday, recommended the ATA be extended.
FACT:
Long list of prominate Liberals want the extension; RCMP are begging for it; Bob Rae stands firm that the extension is necessary.
FACT:
The Liberals on committee, in 2006, voted FOR a 5 year (more than 3 year) extension of the ATA.
Yesterday, Dion said that the ATA 'could' harm the reputation of citizens required to testify.
That statement pretty much confirms, IMO, that PMSH was right. This jaw dropping reversal is to protect 'reputations', at the risk of national security.
Liberals did the same, shame shame shame chant, when it was brought to parliament that Martin did lunch with the Tamil Tigers.
What in the hell is going on inside the Liberal party?
BC Tory - You have a very valid point and I agree the Liberals playing victim is somewhat hypocritical in the sense that they have also insulted the Conservatives, although not quite at a personal level yet. The real issue here is public perception and since the Liberals are seen publicly as being defenders of the little guy and the Conservatives defenders of the big guy, the public will tolerate complaining from them that they won't from the Tories. If the Tories could win votes by playing the victim card, believe me they would do it. It is much like a 5'2, 110 pound guy punching a 6'3, 250 pound guy and the bigger guy punching him back. The public will be angry at the larger guy for punching the little guy back, while will have no sympathy if the big guy complains about being punched by the little guy. I am not saying this is right, I am simply pointing out how the public perceives things.
Amanpreet Singh Bal - the investigation was botched, but that is over with and we now need to deal with what we can do rather than what we should have done. Still you have very valid points.
Wilson61 - the Charter is the absolute minimum in terms of rights and government must meet. There is nothing stopping the government from granting more rights than the Charter grants. If anything government should take individual rights seriously and oppose any measure that might violate the Charter or even goes against its spirit.
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