Stephane Dion's first day as leader
Today was Stephane Dion's first day as leader and on the whole I was generally pleased. I thought his plan for Afghanistan was a well thought out one and I hope he continues to release such plans rather than just attack the opposition. Much like Harper, his strength is in policy so he should continue to point out the Tories' flaws, but also propose positive solutions. Indeed it could be argued Harper lost in 2004 because he only opposed the Liberals but didn't offer Canadians anything while in 2006 he did. I agree the current government is a far right neo-conservative government, but unlike prior to last election, I suspect most people have mind up their mind so in my case, he is only preaching to choir, while in Brandon or BC Tory's case, no amount of saying it will make them believe it. That being said on the whole it was a good day. His show of unity and willingness to work with his rivals is definitely a good sign for Liberals. On the SSM issue, I personally think it should be a whipped vote since it is a rights issue, but I can understand the possible risks of party splits so I would be okay if a free vote although disappointed. I also think his emphasis on the three pillars and being a centrist is very important in order to win. I felt Martin focused too much on social justice and not enough on economic prosperity so I am glad to see Dion is emphasizing both equally and putting his stamp firmly in the centre, not the left. In fact even Bay Street was generally pleased with the choice and Thomas Aquilino, who is no Liberal supporter, assured Bay Street this is no tax and spend Liberal. He has a tough task ahead, but considering his successes so far and how well he has faced each challenge, I think he can manage.
I've already heard some, both Liberals and Tories, saying he cannot win the next election. I couldn't disagree more. It is no guarantee he will win, but I think there is a very good chance he will. Some of the common reasons sighted for his possible unelectability are he is unpopular in Quebec, messed up on the environment, his poor English skills, and Western Canada won't vote for a Quebec leader. On all four counts they are wrong. He is hated amongst separtists, but most federalist Quebecers like his no nonsense stance with the separtist. Lets remember Chretien and Trudeau who took the separtist head on did better than Martin and Turner who were willing to make compromises with them. On the environment, he was only environment minister for 18 months and almost all the GHG increases happened before then as well in the 2005 budget they did develop a plan to reduce GHGs. He has a strong accent, but his English is not poor. It is better than Chretien's and if Chretien could win three back to back majorities I don't see how this will hurt Dion. As for him being unelectable in the West, the only province in the West where the Liberals have much chance for gains is British Columbia, which also happens to be one of the most environmentally conscious provinces, so if anything his environmental plan should be popular in British Columbia. In fact the main guy behind his win was Mark Marissen who is from BC and is the husband of former education minister Christy Clark. Also former BC Liberal MLA Joyce Murray was one of his BC co-chairs.
To all Liberals, I say hang in there; if we stick together we can win the next election, but if we don't we won't, so don't underestimate him. To all Tories, I would be very worried since he has often been underestimated so if Harper underestimates him, he does it at his own peril. Now I doubt if Harper will underestimate him although I think some of his caucus members might.
I've already heard some, both Liberals and Tories, saying he cannot win the next election. I couldn't disagree more. It is no guarantee he will win, but I think there is a very good chance he will. Some of the common reasons sighted for his possible unelectability are he is unpopular in Quebec, messed up on the environment, his poor English skills, and Western Canada won't vote for a Quebec leader. On all four counts they are wrong. He is hated amongst separtists, but most federalist Quebecers like his no nonsense stance with the separtist. Lets remember Chretien and Trudeau who took the separtist head on did better than Martin and Turner who were willing to make compromises with them. On the environment, he was only environment minister for 18 months and almost all the GHG increases happened before then as well in the 2005 budget they did develop a plan to reduce GHGs. He has a strong accent, but his English is not poor. It is better than Chretien's and if Chretien could win three back to back majorities I don't see how this will hurt Dion. As for him being unelectable in the West, the only province in the West where the Liberals have much chance for gains is British Columbia, which also happens to be one of the most environmentally conscious provinces, so if anything his environmental plan should be popular in British Columbia. In fact the main guy behind his win was Mark Marissen who is from BC and is the husband of former education minister Christy Clark. Also former BC Liberal MLA Joyce Murray was one of his BC co-chairs.
To all Liberals, I say hang in there; if we stick together we can win the next election, but if we don't we won't, so don't underestimate him. To all Tories, I would be very worried since he has often been underestimated so if Harper underestimates him, he does it at his own peril. Now I doubt if Harper will underestimate him although I think some of his caucus members might.
posted by Monkey Loves to Fight at 5:59 PM
14 Comments:
Today, a Conservative friend told me that this was an "early Christmas gift" from the Liberals and Harper would "pulverize him" in an English debate. I simply told him that the Liberals underestimated Harper in 2006, and look where it got them. The point is, while some Conservatives underestimate Dion, I am trying to ensure that any such person I encounter knows that such a view will only return us to opposition.
That said, Dion was fairly strong in his first day. I could have lived without some of the over-the-top rhetoric, but he was a lot more calm and mild-mannered than Graham or Martin, who acted like rabid dogs in making partisan questions. Though Jack Layton's slip of the tongue will undoubtedly be the highlight of the night.
BC Tory - I think you and Brandon have never underestimated him, but some others have including even some Liberals. On the train ride back from Montreal a few Liberal delegates who supported other candidates were convinced we would have another convention in two years, which I told them I didn't think so.
As for the attacks, I think they were more Chretien like than Martin like. They were harsh, but not over the top. If he could just be a bit more humourous when he makes his attacks (like Chretien is) it might even work in his favour.
Lets remember Chretien and Trudeau who took the separtist head on did better than Martin and Turner who were willing to make compromises with them.
And how'd the king of Quebec compromise, Brian Mulroney do in Quebec again?
1984: 58/75 seats
1988: 63/75 seats
Not bad. Not bad at all.
Just saying this as such a stance might help Harper, so the race for second place in Quebec could be an interesting one.
BC Tory - You are right that that the compromise stance with separtist works with Conservatives, but not with Liberals. The Conservatives have a very weak base in Quebec, so they have to appeal to the soft-nationalist vote. However, the Liberals they have traditionally appealed to the federalist vote and never done well amongst the separtist or those sympathetic to the separtist.
My point was amongst Liberal leaders, those who were hard on the separtist have generally performed better than those who were soft on them in terms of support in Quebec.
It was a good day to be a Conservative. Dion exhibits the same type of over-the-top, insulting and arrogant behavior that brought the Liebrals to this state in the first place.
Same old, same old. What a relif!
It was a good day to be a Conservative. Dion exhibits the same type of over-the-top, insulting and arrogant behavior that brought the Liebrals to this state in the first place.
Same old, same old. What a relif!
Actually no it won't hurt the Liberals a lot. I've seen Dion in action long enough and normally he is not over the top in rhetoric. If anything he was doing it to unite the party who despite their divisions have one thing in common - they hate Harper and his agenda. Besides it is not as though the Tories haven't said worse things about Dion. Until the Tories stop smearing their opponents, I don't think they can ask the Liberals to stop.
Jack Layton is the one who was over the top!! Thank goodness; I needed the laff!
I've had a hard time, up to now, finding anything to like about PMS, but I must say, he was great in getting to the - ah - bottom of the subject raised!
He showed he's a good sport and has a great sense of humour. These days they are in far too short supply.
Penny - I don't find Dion over the top on the whole at all. Jack Layton isn't exactly, all though his gaffe of big ass was sure funny, when I think he might big gas.
As posted elsewhere:
One can already see, whatever M. Dion, dual citizen of France believes, the Liebral approach to electoral victory is unchanged: demean and attack Canadians whose values include honesty, integrity and accountability; appeal to base instincts; and divide in order to conquer.
M. Dion mouthed the same empty platitudes following the Monday morning Liebral caucus meeting as we heard from Paul Martin and the now discredited and utterly failed Scott Reid.
What I see is that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Lieberals are still viscious, small-minded bullies who are intolerant of diverse opinions.
M Dion is already no different. Bullies sometimes wear glasses - but they are bullies none-the-less.
One can already see, whatever M. Dion, dual citizen of France believes, the Liebral approach to electoral victory is unchanged: demean and attack Canadians whose values include honesty, integrity and accountability; appeal to base instincts; and divide in order to conquer.
Until Dion becomes PM, I see no problem with him having dual citizenship. Lets remember France is a member of the European Union, so being a French citizen also makes him an EU Citizen, so really he is able to enjoy all the rights of a national in 26 different countries soon to be 28 this January. If I could hold an EU passport, I would happily take it since that would allow me to live in work in any EU Country as well as make travel to Europe much easier.
As for his nasty tone, I suggest you read the most recent news releases on the Liberal website. They are critical of the Conservative Party, but they aren't over the top. After all when has an opposition party anywhere not been critical of the government. If they support the government on every issue, they must as well fold up their tent. His harsh attacks on the Conservatives were at a caucus meeting and the Liberal convention where he is trying to appeal to the hardcore Liberal partisans, when he speaks to the general public, I haven't seen him use over the top language unlike Martin who I felt used the same rhetoric with hardcore partisans as he did with the general public.
M. Dion mouthed the same empty platitudes following the Monday morning Liebral caucus meeting as we heard from Paul Martin and the now discredited and utterly failed Scott Reid.
What I see is that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Lieberals are still viscious, small-minded bullies who are intolerant of diverse opinions.
The Liberal Party is probably the most tolerant of different opinions and the most diverse caucus. There are members who oppose the gun registry, support a parallel private system, favour a North American Union, oppose SSM and abortion, favoured the Iraq War and a host of other issues that go against party policy and none of them have been punished for speaking out against party policy, which contrasts with the Conservatives who will kick you out of caucus if you speak out against their policies, just ask Garth Turner. If anything I've found the Conservative attacks on Dion to be a lot nastier than his on the Conservatives. Maybe the Conservatives should start being a little more tolerant of different opinions before asking the Liberals to be.
M Dion is already no different. Bullies sometimes wear glasses - but they are bullies none-the-less.
This seems to be closer to the Conservatives than the Liberals. Lets remember Paul Martin is no longer leader and Scott Reid is no longer a top advisor.
Until Dion becomes PM, I see no problem with him having dual citizenship.
Not that I am any fan of Conrad Black - far from it - but this from the party that made Black renounce his Canadian citizenship in order to accept a British peerage.
More of the Liebral same..rules as for others.
Phaw
Interesting on CBC news that Brian Tobin is breaking with M. Dion:
Brian Tobin, the former Newfoundland and Labrador premier and federal cabinet minister who once criticized the Fraser Institute as a "right-wing, Looney Tune" organization, is joining the think-tank.
Tobin has been appointed as a senior fellow to help develop an energy strategy for North America.
'Michael Walker and the Fraser Institute are the most right-wing, Looney Tune institute [or] think-tank that has ever set foot on the soil of Canada.'—Brian Tobin in 1999.
"As a nation, Canada is well-positioned to be a leader across many sectors of the global economy, in particular the energy sector," Tobin said in a news release Friday.
"That is why we need to create an environment that encourages investment and rewards entrepreneurial spirit, something long advocated by the Fraser Institute."
He joins other ex-politicians at the institute, including former federal Reform leader Preston Manning and Former Ontario Conservative premier Mike Harris
This will be fun to watch.
Tickets on sale at Ticketmaster!
Interim Liberal leader Bill Graham has compared Tories to Nazis.
If this were simply more of the same, "over-the-top" promotion of hatred against an identifiable group we have becopme used to in the Liebral Party, it would merely be sad.
However, as the following story points out, Graham's statements represent a disturbing hypocracy of the deeply rooted racism and promotion of hatred that runs rampid within the Liberal Party itself:
Canadian Press
Bob Rae was the target of anti-Semitic attacks during the Liberal leadership contest, motivated at least in part by the fact that his wife is Jewish.
Sources close to Rae say that his wife, Arlene Perly Rae, was approached during last weekend's convention by a delegate who didn't realize she was the candidate's wife. The delegate told her not to vote for Rae "because his wife is Jewish."
Perly Rae stonily informed the delegate that she was the wife in question. The delegate beat a hasty retreat.
The incident might have been shrugged off if it had been an isolated event. But Rae team insiders contend it was part of a larger pattern of anti-Semitic smears on Rae, who finished third.
A flyer was circulated electronically among convention delegates denouncing Rae for having once delivered a speech to the Jewish National Fund, a group the flyer said was complicit in "war crimes and ethnic cleansing."
"Rae's wife is a vice-president of the CJC (Canadian Jewish Congress), a lobby group which supports Israeli apartheid," said the flyer in bold letters superimposed over a close-up of Rae's face.
"Bob Rae supports Israeli apartheid. Don't elect a leader who supports apartheid."
The Canadian Jewish Congress has condemned the flyer and blamed Khaled Mouammar, president of the Canadian Arab Federation for circulating it. The federation has, in turn, accused the CJC of making "a pitiful attempt to discredit" it and has denied producing or distributing the flyer.
Nevertheless, in a release Thursday, the federation supported the content of the flyer.
"CAF believes that Canadians have the right to know the factual information provided" in the flyer, the federation said.
It went on to say that the Jewish National Fund manages all state lands in Israel and allows only Jews to live on such land, a "practice that amounts to ethnic cleansing," and added that "Canadians have the right to know who supports the JNF in Canada."
The flyer was produced and e-mailed to all MPs by Ron Saba, editor of an obscure magazine called Montreal Planet. But The Canadian Press has obtained an e-mail from Mouammar, in which he forwarded the flyer to others. Several days before Saturday's leadership vote, it wound up being posted on a website operated by an immigrant advocacy group.
Mouammar wrote on that website that the flyer had "nothing to do with Bob Rae's and his wife's religion and ethnicity but has a lot to do with their political views."
"It is well-known that Bob Rae himself is hostile to Palestinians and Arabs," Mouammar wrote.
He added that "his wife's leadership position in the Canadian Jewish Congress (CJC) should be a matter of concern to everyone" and went on to condemn the CJC as "an ardent supporter of Israel, lam basts (sic) anyone who dares to criticize Israel and resorts to undermining human rights and civil liberties to protect Israel's war crimes."
Ed Morgan, president of the Canadian Jewish Congress, called on the Liberal party Thursday to denounce the flyer.
While it's legitimate to criticize a candidate's position on the Middle East, Morgan said there can be only one purpose in raising the fact that Rae's wife is a member of the Congress's board: "It's strictly to say that his wife is a Jew."
But the flyer wasn't the only example of anti-Semitic attacks on Rae.
On another website, operated by a Montreal-based pro-Palestinian group, Liberals were urged about a week before the leadership vote: "Do not vote for Bob Rae, we're not looking or another Zionist PM."
The group recommended that delegates vote for Gerard Kennedy, the fourth-place contender whose dramatic decision to throw his support to Stephane Dion after the second ballot clinched the victory for Dion. It said that "voting for Bob Rae is a vote for the daily massacre in Palestine (and) . . . for a new Zionist PM in Canada."
Rae could not be reached for comment Thursday but insiders say he was aghast and hurt by the attacks.
The smears have raised broader questions about the role that blocs of ethnic delegates played at the convention in securing a stunning, come-from-behind victory for Dion.
On the opening day of the leadership convention, the Muslim Canadian Congress blasted "self-styled leaders from the Muslim community" for suggesting they could direct Muslim delegates to vote en masse for the candidate of their choice.
"Muslim delegates at the convention are not a herd of cattle for sale to the highest bidder," Muslim Canadian Congress vice-president Salma Siddiqui said in a release.
Siddiqui, a supporter of frontrunner Michael Ignatieff, accused Mohamed Elmasry, head of the Canadian Islamic Congress, of trying to bargain with leadership candidates on behalf of some 200 to 300 Muslim delegates.
Heading into the convention, the CIC had interviewed the top contenders and ranked Dion and Kennedy as the "most desirable potential winners," based on their track records and stands on "vital national and international issues." Rae was next while Ignatieff ranked as the least desirable of the top four.
Elmasry said Thursday that Siddiqui's charges were "nonsense" and "an insult" to Muslim delegates, implying that they had "no brain of their own."
He said the CIC held a breakfast meeting with the top four candidates last Saturday morning, just before voting on the second ballot began, to give them all an equal chance to impress Muslim delegates. He said the council was trying to engage and educate Muslim delegates, not herd them.
Elmasry added that he assured Rae that his wife's religion "is not an issue for us."
But Tarek Fatah, a Rae supporter and member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, said appeals to "tribalism" went well beyond the Muslim delegates. He said Kennedy, despite his claim to represent party renewal, was the candidate who benefited most from the support of Muslim, Sikh, Ukrainian and Tamil blocs, who moved en masse to Dion after the second ballot.
"This is a step back," Fatah said in an interview, adding that Kennedy has "taken us back to the '30s and '40s" when Catholics and Protestants voted in blocs.
"It's tainting the political system where policies aren't being discussed but race, ethnicity and religion (are pivotal)."
Toronto MP Navdeep Bains, who is credited with moving 237 Sikh delegates from Kennedy to Dion, said Fatah's complaints are simply "sour grapes."
"Like anyone else, as a member of Parliament and as a member of the community, you try to exert as much influence as you possibly can," he said in an interview.
"That's what it really boils down to, the ability to exert influence and try to convince people about the right decision. But ultimately, the delegates made up their own minds."
Bains said the group of delegates he influenced were not only Sikhs but from a variety of ethnic backgrounds.
Kennedy could not be reached for comment.
The flyer itself is beyond disgusting. BUt worse, the Liebral Party of Canada has doine nothing - NOTHING to discourage or stop this behavior.
Had the Liebrals a collective ounce of ethics, they would have publicly denounced this immediately.
Certainly M.Dion, who has sopken of social justice should have been heard from by now.
Instead M. Dion's rhetoric on social justice rings as hollow and empty as the vault of Liebral decency.
Those "values" you can have.
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